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Post by labontefanboy on Apr 8, 2014 17:39:46 GMT -5
I've decided to share my tier system with all of you.
This applies to both Driver Ratings* and Equipment Ratings**. All Pit Crew Ratings receive 85-100.
*Except for Road Course Ability. I rank these based on my personal opinions and observations, taking into account real-world road course performance. With just 3 races on the entire schedule there is not enough data to properly rank these drivers.
**Except for Aerodynamics Ratings. This category is given 85-95 for all teams to simulate the similarities between car bodies due to strict enforcements of the templates in the inspection process.
Tier 1 Ratings: 75-90
Tier 2 Ratings: 70-85
Tier 3 Ratings: 65-80
Tier 4 Ratings: 60-75
However, teams that switch manufacturers are given the minimum value of the tier below and the maximum value of the tier above. For example, if a Tier 3 team switches from Ford to Chevy for the next season, they are given 60-85 as opposed to 65-80.
Rookie drivers and start-up teams are given 55-85 ratings at the beginning of the season. At the first and second ratings updates, however, they will be given the same treatment as described in the above method, earning a spot in a certain tier as opposed to being left out.
Old age also affects ratings. After the age of 45, all driver ratings (note: this does not include pit crew or equipment) will go down by 1 point for each year that goes by. For example, if a driver is entering 2008 in his age 48 season, each minimum and maximum rating will go down by 3 points. This is to help allow for gradual retirements and prevent a driver like Morgan Shepherd with no realistic shot at winning from grabbing a victory in a wild crashfest of a race.
Crew chief changes will also affect ratings, but not in the season. In the event of a crew chief change during the offseason, equipment ratings (excluding aerodynamics) will see the minimum value go down by 2 and the maximum value go up by 2. For example, if a tier 2 team with 70-85 ratings switches crew chiefs in the offseason, at the beginning of the next season, ratings will be 68-87. As with rookie and start-up teams though, this change is not seen in the mid-season ratings updates.
For in-season ratings updates, any driver with no statistics from that given year will be given 60-82, unless said driver is a rookie. In that case, he/she will receive the standard 55-85 ratings.
For in-season ratings updates for teams, any returning team that has yet to compete in the given season will earn the placement of the tier they ended the previous season in. For example, if a part-time team finishes the season in the second tier, but doesn't attempt to qualify for a race until Race 18 of the next season (therefore after the first update), they will still maintain their second tier status from the previous year. In the case of a start-up team, that team will also remain in the 55-85 category.
When setting preseason driver skill ratings, drivers use their statistics from the previous season (aside from rookie instances). The tier then applies to every single driver skill category (aside from the aforementioned road course ability category). However, at the first and second mid-season ratings updates, the driver skill categories are separated.
To set Aggression, Consistency and Finishing, only a drivers PPR (Points per Race) value is taken into account.
For Qualifying, drivers are tiered based on their average starting position of that season.
For each track type (excluding road courses), drivers point totals from those races are totaled and the PPR value sets the tiers. For example, to set the tiers for restrictor plate track ability, points from the Daytona 500 and Aaron's 499 are totaled in a separate category, and the PPR values are used to tier drivers.
Hope this clears up any questions that may come when I post the tiers. If it doesn't, feel free to ask.
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Post by Chad' on Apr 8, 2014 17:54:27 GMT -5
Very good.
I was thinking of using this system in my mock season, and this topic only helped me on this issue of ratings.
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Post by johngronkowski on Jan 24, 2015 2:44:01 GMT -5
When setting preseason driver skill ratings, drivers use their statistics from the previous season
Do you mean from your season or from real life? For example its the 2011 nationwide season and I want to hire a driver. Now this driver earned a 10.7 average finish in real life, but in the previous offline league season he didn't compete. Now for the 2011 preseason ratings does he get the 60-82 ratings or does he get better ratings because of the 10.7 average finish?
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Post by labontefanboy on Jan 24, 2015 12:10:55 GMT -5
If he hasn't competed in the offline season before, then he would get 60-82 or the rookie ratings.
The only exception to this is the 2008 NNS ratings, because there is no prior offline season for this division. I will use the 2007 real-life driver points to rate drivers.
One thing I should note is that Cup drivers will have special treatment. If a Cup driver competes in fewer than 10 races, I will determine what tier he goes in, either Tier 1 or Tier 2.
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Post by johngronkowski on Mar 16, 2015 13:24:27 GMT -5
I was wondering earlier today if a driver like Jeff Gordon or Jeff Burton "decides" to continue racing full time up until their late 40's and early 50's, is there going to be some rating decrease for them? It wouldn't be realistic for a driver to have the same chance of success at 35 compared to 50.
Also now that there is a physical Nationwide series, I think nationwide series success should be factored in somewhat to the Sprint Cup Series. If for example I own Joe Gibbs Racing and I have one driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 2nd in points and I have another driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 10th in points. And then let's say I decide to run both of these drivers in 7 cup races in the next year. It wouldn't make sense to have both of these drivers start out with 55-85 rookie ratings. I feel like the driver who finished 2nd in point should at least have some (even very small) advantage over the guy who finished 10th in points.
Also just making sure the first update is after 26 races. And then the results from races 27-36 dictate the ratings for the first 26 races of the next season.
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Post by flyer101999 on Mar 16, 2015 14:47:18 GMT -5
The first update is after race 13, second is after race 26
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Post by labontefanboy on Mar 18, 2015 15:46:38 GMT -5
I was wondering earlier today if a driver like Jeff Gordon or Jeff Burton "decides" to continue racing full time up until their late 40's and early 50's, is there going to be some rating decrease for them? It wouldn't be realistic for a driver to have the same chance of success at 35 compared to 50. Also now that there is a physical Nationwide series, I think nationwide series success should be factored in somewhat to the Sprint Cup Series. If for example I own Joe Gibbs Racing and I have one driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 2nd in points and I have another driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 10th in points. And then let's say I decide to run both of these drivers in 7 cup races in the next year. It wouldn't make sense to have both of these drivers start out with 55-85 rookie ratings. I feel like the driver who finished 2nd in point should at least have some (even very small) advantage over the guy who finished 10th in points. Also just making sure the first update is after 26 races. And then the results from races 27-36 dictate the ratings for the first 26 races of the next season. Sorry I haven't gotten around to answering this sooner. I am currently toying with ideas for aging, but yes, it is definitely something I have thought about. Right now I'm thinking about making it a -2 decrease for each category of driver ratings a year starting after age 45. So say a driver has Tier 2 ratings in his age 45 season. When the next season begins, he will be a tier 2 with a 2 point decrease, meaning 68-83. Then in his age 47 season, it's 66-81 assuming he maintains at Tier 2. As for the Nationwide Series driver moonlighting in Cup, I personally don't think there needs to be a difference. Any driver that is running in NNS and would have rookie ratings in Cup is inexperienced, so they won't be lighting the world on fire. That 7 races should have very inconsistent results. From what I understand of ratings in NR2003, for each race, a random number is assigned within the given range. So 55-85 means that for any given race, a particular category could be as low as 55 or as high as 85. I'm only looking for these guys running a partial Cup schedule to have inconsistent results. None of them, regardless of equipment, should be lighting the world on fire. Also, Nationwide success does not always translate to Cup success. Martin Truex Jr. has as many Nationwide Championships as he has Cup Series victories. Jimmie Johnson has 6 Cup championships and just 9 top 5s in Nationwide. So I like to give all the rookie a fair shot with that wide range to allow for inconsistency, keeping in mind that some rookies pan out and some don't. And flyersfan10199 is correct. One update occurs after 13 races, the other occurs after 26 races. Though in Nationwide, it will be after races 14 and 26 so that I'm updating after the same race weekend. |
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Post by johngronkowski on Mar 19, 2015 14:18:15 GMT -5
I was wondering earlier today if a driver like Jeff Gordon or Jeff Burton "decides" to continue racing full time up until their late 40's and early 50's, is there going to be some rating decrease for them? It wouldn't be realistic for a driver to have the same chance of success at 35 compared to 50. Also now that there is a physical Nationwide series, I think nationwide series success should be factored in somewhat to the Sprint Cup Series. If for example I own Joe Gibbs Racing and I have one driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 2nd in points and I have another driver run the full Nationwide season and finish 10th in points. And then let's say I decide to run both of these drivers in 7 cup races in the next year. It wouldn't make sense to have both of these drivers start out with 55-85 rookie ratings. I feel like the driver who finished 2nd in point should at least have some (even very small) advantage over the guy who finished 10th in points. Also just making sure the first update is after 26 races. And then the results from races 27-36 dictate the ratings for the first 26 races of the next season. Sorry I haven't gotten around to answering this sooner. I am currently toying with ideas for aging, but yes, it is definitely something I have thought about. Right now I'm thinking about making it a -2 decrease for each category of driver ratings a year starting after age 45. So say a driver has Tier 2 ratings in his age 45 season. When the next season begins, he will be a tier 2 with a 2 point decrease, meaning 68-83. Then in his age 47 season, it's 66-81 assuming he maintains at Tier 2. As for the Nationwide Series driver moonlighting in Cup, I personally don't think there needs to be a difference. Any driver that is running in NNS and would have rookie ratings in Cup is inexperienced, so they won't be lighting the world on fire. That 7 races should have very inconsistent results. From what I understand of ratings in NR2003, for each race, a random number is assigned within the given range. So 55-85 means that for any given race, a particular category could be as low as 55 or as high as 85. I'm only looking for these guys running a partial Cup schedule to have inconsistent results. None of them, regardless of equipment, should be lighting the world on fire. Also, Nationwide success does not always translate to Cup success. Martin Truex Jr. has as many Nationwide Championships as he has Cup Series victories. Jimmie Johnson has 6 Cup championships and just 9 top 5s in Nationwide. So I like to give all the rookie a fair shot with that wide range to allow for inconsistency, keeping in mind that some rookies pan out and some don't. And flyersfan10199 is correct. One update occurs after 13 races, the other occurs after 26 races. Though in Nationwide, it will be after races 14 and 26 so that I'm updating after the same race weekend. No worries, thanks for the response! |
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Post by labontefanboy on Jun 1, 2015 13:17:27 GMT -5
I've moved this thread to the "About" section so that it can be located more easily. And I've also added on the new old age modifications to the original post.
Also, I am currently working on NNS ratings for 2008, and there will likely be certain modifications to the system. For starters, there will only be three tiers, as I've found that the PPR values from real-life 2007 data favor a 3-tier system much more greatly than a 4-tier system. The top tier will be 75-90, the middle will be 67-83, and the bottom will still be 60-75. (This is for equipment ratings only). I have not concluded whether or not this will be necessary for the mid-season ratings updates, though. Once we get to that point, I will make a decision. Also, I have yet to decide how I want to tackle Cup drivers moonlighting in NNS. Feel free to suggest anything if you have an idea, I'll consider all possibilities.
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Post by labontefanboy on Jun 5, 2015 13:40:29 GMT -5
Official Nationwide Series Driver Ratings Setup
After much deliberation, I have finally come to what I believe is a fair and competitive ratings system for the Nationwide Series of the Mock Season. This applies to Driver Ratings, and it must differ from the system of Sprint Cup ratings due to the impact of moonlighting Cup drivers in the second-tier NASCAR series.
So, without further ado, here it is.
There are 5 different categories that a driver can fall into. They are:
1. Full-time Cup Driver
2. NNS Driver
3. In-Between Driver
4. Rookie
5. Road Course Ringer
1. Full-time Cup drivers are defined as drivers attempting the majority of the Sprint Cup schedule in that given season, and have completed at least 50 races in Cup prior to that given season.
2. NNS drivers are drivers competing predominantly in NNS as opposed to Cup. There may be former full-time Cup drivers in this category, but since they are not actively competing full-time in this Cup season, they are categorized here.
3. In-between drivers are full-time Cup drivers with fewer than 50 races competed. These are, for the most part, Cup rookies or Cup sophomores. This category was introduced to allow for less inconsistency than standard rookies but to allow for some inconsistency due to a lack of experience.
4. Rookies are pretty self-explanatory. Any driver that retains rookie eligibility (no more than 7 races completed in any given season) falls under this category, unless they are a road course ringer.
5. Road course ringers are drivers competing solely on road courses. Even if they have rookie eligibility, they do not gain rookie ratings.
Now, as to how these categories are broken up:
1. There are two tiers of full-time Cup drivers, based off of PPR. The PPR is calculated from the most recent season that a full-time Cup driver participated in for NNS. For example, if a full-time Cup driver did not partake in any NNS race in 2006 or 2007 but competed in 3 in 2005, the PPR would be used from that 2005. The top tier is given ratings of 77-92, due to their overwhelming experience compared to the normal NNS driver. The second tier is not far behind, with ratings of 73-88. These are all high because any driver that has earned a full-time Cup Series ride is deemed superior to a driver competing in NNS. Therefore, they should be justly rated according to that.
2. NNS drivers fall underneath the standard 4-tier system. The top tier gets 75-90, second gets 70-85, third gets 65-80, and last gets 60-75. Any former NNS drivers with no data from the preceding season is treated like those under the same situation in Cup: 60-82.
3. In-between drivers have ratings of 60-85 across the board.
4. Rookie drivers all have ratings of 55-85.
5. Road course ringers have ratings of 0-0 for Short Tracks, Speedways, and Superspeedways, and have ratings of 55-85 for Aggression, Consistency, Finishing, and Qualifying.
As with the Cup Series, I rate the drivers for Road Courses based on my opinion and observations from watching real-life data. I do not use any NRatings formula to do that, as I haven't had good results with those systems, and I cannot use in-season data because there are so few road course races. Therefore, I must use my own personal intellect for this category. Don't worry, I rate them fairly and objectively.
And like the Cup Series, the old age rule still takes effect.
I believe that covers everything. Feel free to ask any questions. I plan on having the driver tiers posted at some point later tonight, so be on the lookout for that.
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